Tag Archive - psychology

Steve Jobs, John Wesley, and How Pursuing Opportunities Often Come at Great Cost to Our Personal and Family Lives

October 10, 2011 in Marriage-Family, Ministry-Theology, Therapy-Psychology with 4 Comments

The annals of history are filled with people who have done great things (inventions, writings, art, building, etc.) at great cost to their personal and family life.

So it was not a surprise when I read Steve Jobs’ biographer Walter Isaacson say the following:

Mr Jobs then explained why, despite his famous reclusiveness, he had decided to co-operate with a biographer…

“I wanted my kids to know me,” Mr Isaacson recalled Mr Jobs saying, in a posthumous tribute the biographer wrote for Time magazine. “I wasn’t always there for them, and I wanted them to know why and to understand what I did.”

I was really struck by that statement “I wanted my kids to know me.”

You and I may never invent something like the iPhone, but everyday we are given the choice to pursue opportunities that pull us farther away from our kids and spouse…family — or to say no to opportunities that pull us away from them. And instead make decisions that enrich our families and the lives of our kids.

I wrote this post not as a moral indictment on what choices we make in regards to how we choose to live our family lives…but more so that we understand there is often great cost to our families when we pursue certain endeavors.

Often these choices get even more murky coming in the form of ministry as well. It’s not hard to find historical records and stories of great men and women of God who have left a huge mark on Christianity with their writings and ministries, but who have left a wake of destruction in their personal and family lives.

For example, I remember hearing in my Church history class of the bad marriage and family life of the famous cleric and theologian John Wesley. We can thank him for the legacy he has left, but there was a personal and family cost to getting there.

Are you willing to sacrifice your personal and family life for your pursuits?

People can still pursue opportunities of great cost, and follow God at great cost…without destroying their families in the process. Perhaps we need to pay attention to, and become better at discerning which opportunities allow us to continue to foster our marriages and families in the process, and which ones could be lethal to them.

How Ministry Leaders Avoid the Hard Work of Boundary Setting

June 1, 2011 in Ministry-Theology, Pastoral Counseling, Pastoral Leadership, Therapy-Psychology with 3 Comments

We talk a lot about boundaries in our culture.

“Boundaries define us. They define what is me and what is not me. A boundary shows me where I end and someone else begins, leading me to a sense of ownership.

Knowing what I am to own and take responsibility for gives me freedom.” (Boundaries, Townsend and Cloud, pp. 29)



In fact, boundaries is one of the first things I address most often in my therapeutic work because a lack of clear and defined boundaries often leads to many problems in relationships with people. If people don’t have clear boundaries they often have a confused sense-of-self and identity.

But I feel like I’ve started to notice a trend regarding boundaries, especially in ministry circles.

The trend is this

A pastor/ministry leader/lay leader, et cetera makes a sweeping or non-negotiable statement about the boundaries they are practicing or want to practice.

Usually the statement comes from up front, preferably in front of many people as possible (Sunday worship perhaps) so as to communicate to as many people at one time the established boundary.

It may go something like this

“Because our church is so big, or because I’m so busy, I want you to know that I will NEVER personally return any emails/phone calls that you send to me. And I will NEVER meet you one on one at dinner/lunch/coffee, et cetera. I have a family and it’s a boundary that I have set in order to protect them.”

Though there are situations that this may be appropriate, it often feels like many ministry leaders do this in an attempt to avoid the difficult task of establishing healthy boundaries that can only come about in up and close relationships and interactions with other people.

Sure, it’s easier to just cut people off and avoid them.

Sure it’s easier to tell 6,000 people you will never return their emails than to have a heart to heart conversation with them about why you are setting a boundary with them regarding their emails.

It certainly helps us try and squash our own anxiety…but it certainly doesn’t lead to the relational growth that I think is necessary for not only people…but especially ministry leaders.

We only grow as people when we have to do the day in and day out hard work of being in relationship with people. We don’t grow by avoiding them or cutting them off.

I definitely think ministry leaders can do a better job of setting boundaries, but I just wonder sometimes if they avoid it because it’s such hard, ongoing work. Nothing is easier than getting up front and just delivering a boundary in front of 6,000 people. That way we can avoid the individual relational interaction and just address the big, anonymous crowd before us.

And when we do this, I wonder if we are actually avoiding the task of being a pastor.

How do you go about setting boundaries in your own life and ministry work? Any tips or suggestions?

‘Taking’ a Triune God Into Our Pastoral Counseling Work

March 17, 2011 in Ministry-Theology, Pastoral Counseling with 3 Comments

A book that I read about seven years ago, and have flipped back and forth through on occasion in the last few years…I have just recently picked back up again and started re-reading it because of my interest in the integration of theology and psychology, especially pertaining to pastoral counseling in the context of the Christian community. The book is a wonderful book, and one that I recommend for all pastors, counselors, etc…those who are trying to integrate these two disciplines (psychology and theology) into their counseling work.

The book is called Theology and Pastoral Counseling: A New Interdisciplinary Approach by Deborah van Deusen Hunsinger. In the book Hunsinger applies the theological method of Karl Barth to pastoral counseling, and I think the outcome for the reader is a real deep appreciation of how the disciplines of theology and psychology can so effectively work together in bringing about transformation in people’s lives.

In the opening chapter of the book Hunsinger draws on the work of Shirley C. Guthrie and his article “Pastoral Counseling, Trinitarian Theology, and Christian Anthropology. Hunsinger goes on to say:

Guthrie’s article is perhaps best characterized as an exercise in theological application. Drawing on central insights from Barth’s theological anthropology, Guthrie asks how a (Reformed) Christian doctrine of the human person might inform the pastoral counselor’s work. Guthrie is thus not interested in interpreting Barth so much as in using Barth’s anthropology to make his own constructive contribution. Guthrie’s essay sheds considerable light on our question of what it means to bring a theological perspective to the therapeutic task. Pastoral counseling’s distinctiveness as a profession, he argues, comes precisely from its theological self-understanding. (p. 18)

Guthrie writes:

What makes Christian pastoral counseling unique is that fact that without arrogance but also without apology the work of counselors is based on the attempt to understand both themselves and their counselees in light of the God who is Creator, Redeemer and Life-Giver and thus the answer to questions about the ultimate origin, meaning and goal of life which lie behind all other problems and questions. (p. 18)

What are the implications of this then in our work as pastoral counselors? Hunsinger says:

From the above quotation it is already evident that Guthrie has adopted Barth’s methodological procedure of basing his theological anthropology on the doctrine of the Trinity. Following this method, Guthrie outlines a Christian doctrine of the human person on the basis of a doctrine of the triune God. Human beings are thus understood from a threefold perspective: first, as created in the image of God (derived from knowledge of God the Creator); second, as sinners who fail to live out God’s purposes and who stand in need of redemption (derived from knowledge of Christ, the Redeemer); and third, as people who are promised a new humanity in Christ (derived from knowledge of the Holy Spirit). Guthrie emphasizes the importance of the pastoral counselor’s keeping all three aspects of human reality in a kind of creative tension, so that the created goodness, the sinful fallenness, and the promised new life of human beings are all clearly seen and affirmed as being simultaneously true….Counselors are ministers who may indeed have specialized skills but who, like their counselees, are themselves ‘limited, fallible, sinful human beings who themselves are judge, need reconciliation and salvation, and can only receive the wisdom and power they cannot produce from themselves to help others. (p. 18-19)

Beautiful. I love the idea that we must keep a ‘kind of creative tension’ between those three aspects of the Trinity as we do our work in the context of pastoral counseling.

So You Want To Get Married? Suggested Books and Resources for Your Premarital Preparation

February 1, 2011 in Marriage-Family, Ministry-Theology, Therapy-Psychology with 16 Comments

“What books do you recommend we read in our premarital counseling?”

That has been a question I have been getting a lot of recently. Whether it’s a Facebook message from a friend, an @rhetter comment on Twitter, or some email I receive from someone who came across my blog, it seems lots of people are interested in finding the right books and resources to read in their premarital preparation.

It’s a really good question, I’m sure you will get a million different answers depending on who you ask. I find that people take this stuff real personal, and really want to share with you what books they read in their premarital counseling because understandably they want to be able to contribute to you some ideas of what books influenced their marriage in hopes that it too has a lasting impact on you.

Soapbox: I wonder what would happen to our marriages if we invested as much time into their preparation as we do for all the wedding planning. It would not surprise me if the average couple who actually does premarital counseling spends about 5-10 hours total in this prep. That includes sessions with the counselor and homework on their own. Compare that to the amount of time a couple spends planning the details of their wedding (location, catering, music, photography, honeymoon, seating arrangements, wedding dress, tuxedos, ring shopping, et cetera). You get my point.

Okay, now back to the topic of this post.

There are lots of different directions you can go with premarital counseling, and the books and resources that you might use. When deciding which direction to go, here are a few things to take into consideration.

  1. How much time do you have to do the premarital counseling? A few months?  A few weeks? Days?  Et cetera.


  2. What kind of training do you have?  Are you a pastor who does lots of counseling and performs weddings?  Are you a lay leader who mentors couples? Are you a licensed therapist/counselor?


  3. What kind of couple are you working with?  Are they highly motivated to really invest and engage in the work?  Do they make the premarital counseling a priority?  Will they read the material, or do the assignments?

Once you have answered those questions, then I think that will put you in a better position to help you determine a course of action for premarital counseling, and what resources, books, or tools you might want to implement and recommend.

My premarital work has changed drastically over the last 8-10 years as I have spent more time with couples, changed professions (from pastor to therapist), and have engaged a wider variety or marriage books than are typically touted.

I have a list of 11 books, and 2 resources that I use in my premarital counseling. By that I don’t mean I have a couple read all the books, but I will pull ideas from the various ones listed, and I may make a recommendation of 1-2 books for a couple to read, depending on the couple, and what area of growth I think is most crucial to the success of their marriage. Consider this just the well from which I draw water from. And also know that I use a variety of material from both the Christian and non-Christian marriage literature.



Books
Let me start with books. If I could only recommend five books that a couple reads, or that a counselor/therapist/pastor reads and pulls ideas from, these are the five I would recommend (I would recommend this for marital as well as premarital work):

When To Say YES, When to Say NO, To Take Control of Your Life by Henry Cloud and John Townsend
–Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. This is a huge area of growth for most people, especially couples as they merge two lives, two families, two careers, etc. together. Most people don’t know how to set healthy boundaries, and if you don’t learn this skill early on in your marriage, it could be very detrimental later on.

Passionate Marriage: Keeping Love and Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships by David Schnarch
–Two ideas: “self soothing” one’s anxiety and differentiation. Two important concepts that few explicate like Schnarch. Also, Schnarch’s work on sexual intimacy is pioneering work on many fronts, and sexuality tends to often be one subject that couple’s fail to honestly communicate about. Though I hate to put a warning on this book , I must so as not to catch people off guard. This is not a “Christian marriage” book and Schnarch’s graphic writing on topics and blunt language may be offensive to people…though I have found many people thanking me for recommending this book to them. I just think it would be a shame for people to miss out on such a great work on marriage.

Hold Me Tight: Seven Conversations for a Love of a Lifetime by Sue Johnson
–When couple’s understand the importance of their early attachment bonds, and how those bonds either positively or negatively influenced their current relationship, it can be a major moment of insight for understanding how they interact. Johnson’s pioneering work on Emotionally Focused Therapy is condensed in this easy to read book, and I think her practical advice can interrupt couple’s negative patterns and promote positive ones.

The Mystery of Marriage: Meditations on the Miracle by Mike Mason
–One of the first books I read on marriage, so it has some sentimental value. And Mason is right, marriage is a mystery, not a five or seven step process that if only followed, equals marriage success. I love Mason’s theological and philosophical insights into the mystery of marriage.

The Total Money Makeover: A Proven Plan for Financial Fitness by Dave Ramsey
–Money, money, money. It’s one of the major sources of conflict in a marriage, and one of the most common reasons leading people to divorce. Why we don’t spend more time helping couple’s work through their issues around money is beyond me. Getting on the same page financially, and holding the same fiscal values can literally free a couple up in so many ways.

I might change my mind on those five tomorrow if a different couple has different needs, wants, and desires, or if I see different areas of potential conflict and needed growth in a specific couple. But when put together, those five books have some powerful principles in them that can set a couple off on the right foot and help positively transform their marriage.

Here are some other suggestions for books I might, and often do throw in the mix.

The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: A Practical Guide from the Country’s Foremost Relationship Expert by John Gottman
–Gottman is a leading expert on marriage, and this book provides LOTS of great exercises for couples to practice.

Extraordinary Relationships: A New Way of Thinking About Human Interactions
 by Roberta Gilbert
–I love Gilbert’s use of Bowen family system’s theory and how we might think differently about the relationships we are a part of.

Sacred Marriage: What if God Designed Marriage to Make Us Holy More Than to Make Us Happy by Gary Thomas
–Because if the subtitle doesn’t compel you, I don’t know what will. Great antidote to what many couple’s assume marriage is all about.

The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love That Lasts by Gary Chapman
–A light bulb literally went off in my wife and I’s head (dating at the time) when we realized that we spoke different love languages, but expected the other person to speak the same. Very freeing insight for a marriage.

The Prophet by Kahlil Gibran
–Because at times we need more poetry and less information when it comes to marriage preparation. The section “On Marriage” is a great reminder to couple’s, especially as it pertains to one’s differentiation.

Letters to a Young Poet by Rainer Maria Rilke
–”Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other” — Beautiful!



Resources/Tools
And now for a couple of very helpful resources that I use from time to time in my premarital work:

I’m certified as a counselor/trainer in the use and implementation of both of these inventories/programs. These are great tools to use, especially if you are not a trained/licensed therapist/counselor, or if you are a pastor who feels like you need more tools to help you design your premarital work.

Family Wellness: The Strongest Link: The Couple

Prepare-Enrich



Tips
As you prepare for your marriage let me make a few suggestions on how to maybe approach and use the material:

  1. Try reading one of the books together…out loud.  You will be amazed at what stands out to you as you do this.  And you will be amazed and enlightened by the conversations that start between the two of you as you simply read out loud.


  2. Try sharing a book and as you read the book to yourselves, use different color pens to highlight material that is important to you.  It helps your partner pick up on some things that need to be addressed, and may help your partner have insight into what issues you see relevant in the coming marriage, or what issues strike a personal chord.


  3. Start preparing for your marriage (not wedding prep) months in advance.  I recommend at least six months so that you have time to properly address issues that may arise.  If your engagement is shorter than six months, then start right away.  Don’t put off till the end.

So anything you would add to this post under books, resources, tips, etc.?

I know lots of people use Love and Respect by Emmerson Eggerichs, and the two books by Shaunti Feldahn, For Men Only: A Straightforward Guide to the Inner Lives of Women, For Women Only: What You Need to Know About the Inner Lives of Men.

“The Power of Vulnerability”: Implications for Our Identity, Relationships, and Vocation

January 27, 2011 in Marriage-Family, Therapy-Psychology with 2 Comments

Brene Brown: The power of vulnerability

This is just a great, great TED talk by Brené Brown, Ph.D., LMSW, who is a research professor at the University of Houston Graduate College of Social Work.

She has spent the past ten years studying vulnerability, courage, authenticity, and shame. Brené spent the first five years of her decade-long study focusing on shame and empathy, and is now using that work to explore a concept that she calls Wholeheartedness. She poses the questions:

How do we learn to embrace our vulnerabilities and imperfections so that we can engage in our lives from a place of authenticity and worthiness? How do we cultivate the courage, compassion, and connection that we need to recognize that we are enough – that we are worthy of love, belonging, and joy?

[HT: Michael Chapman]

Sabbath Keeping versus Margin Keeping: Practices We Must Foster

December 15, 2010 in Ministry-Theology, Therapy-Psychology with 4 Comments

Exchanges between friends on Twitter often raise some great questions.

On November 24 Tyler Braun posted the following:

Challenging post from @MarkBatterson on maintaining margin: http://bit.ly/gMJmjP // I lose it far too often.

My reply to Tyler was:

@tylerbraun almost everyone who ends up in therapy with me has no margin…it’s a consistent theme and issue that affects EVERYTHING!

And my good friend from the church I grew up in Phoenix with, Anna Broadway, replied with:

@tylerbraun @rhetter How would ya’ll say margin in his/your use compares to rest/sabbath? Is sabbath practice a means of protecting margin?

So how does margin compare to Sabbath? And is keeping a Sabbath a way of protecting margin? Those are great questions.

I talk quite frequently in my work with families in both the counseling and church ministry setting about the topic of margin in their lives. I talk about creating “white space” on the calendar, where there is nothing scheduled. It is protected time for families and members of the family to just be…to rest…or to participate in something that hasn’t already been planned. It’s a time to be free of “should”, “have to”, “tasks”, and to simply rest. It’s a great time of connection in families, as they are free to be creative, and do things that aren’t demanded of them.

Margin, “white space”, boundaries…whatever term you use, it is essentially the same. It’s the act of creating space that is free of busyness and activities.

I see this task of creating space and margin as being very different from Sabbath.

Genesis 2:3: Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Sabbath keeping is something that I believe we as Christians should want to do. It is a day where we rest in the work that God has already done. It is a laying down of our wants, abilities and demands, and to be content in what God has already accomplished in our lives. It’s a discipline of saying I don’t have to produce, or do something in order to be right before God. It’s an act of being versus doing. This is reflected in the New Testament, especially at Jesus’ baptism in Mark 1:9-11, where Jesus identity is in his being in relationship with his Father, and not in his doing.

Creating margin, “white space”, boundaries, I view as something that we do on top of Sabbath keeping. It is built in times that are focused on rest, and allowing the creativity in a family/ourselves to come to fruition. Many families/individuals over-schedule their lives with busyness and activities like sports and hobbies because they have somewhere lost the ability to just be with one another outside of having to always do things with one another. There is a distinction there, though subtle, can have huge impacts on our relationships with one another.

I believe we protect the Sabbath because that is something we do to foster our relationship with God, and to state that we are dependent upon him, rather than ourselves.

I believe we protect margin, “white space”, and boundaries in our lives because that is something we do to foster our relationship not only with ourselves, but with those we live, work, and play with.

When an individual, or family loses the ability to foster a Sabbath, or create margin in their lives, I know that there are usually deeper things at work. Often individuals and families are afraid to just be by themselves, or with another, without something planned to do. That fear and hesitation points to the very need to create that space and practice a Sabbath.

Any thoughts that you all have on Sabbath, margin, creating “white space”, etc.? I would love to hear them.

Boundaries, Boundaries, Boundaries…Boundaries

June 11, 2010 in Therapy-Psychology with 1 Comment


“Without truth there can be no intimacy, because without truth you wind up sharing lies or delusions. Without intimacy there can be no relationship. When two partners share their true selves, protecting self and others by the correct practice of boundaries, the miracle of spirituality is present.” (The Intimacy Factor, pp. xvi)

Those words are from Pia Mellody, renowned clinician in the area of codependency and boundaries in relationships, childhood trauma, and many, many other things. I had the chance to see her speak last week and was so blown away by her three hour presentation, Coming into Balance: Addressing Issues of Value, Power and Abundance….that I still can’t stop thinking about it.

If you are looking for a wonderful book to read, I recommend, The Intimacy Factor: The Ground Rules for Overcoming the Obstacles to Truth, Respect, and Lasting Love

“Without boundaries, there is no relationship. Without relationship there is no intimacy. Without intimacy there is no love, and without love the spiritual path is hidden from us.

Boundaries create the experience of truth and respect in which love can grow. We recognize that our inherent worth cannot be taken away from us by the display of our authentic selves. We are human and only that. We are born with inherent worth and it coexists with all our human flaws. (The Intimacy Factor, pp. 118)

ENOUGH: Put Down Those Ministry and Self-Help Books and Pick Up a Novel

March 11, 2010 in Ministry-Theology, Therapy-Psychology with 28 Comments

“Novelists work the same field in which Christians pray, believe and obey, plowing and sowing and harvesting all the interconnections of ordinary lives. This statement by John Updike supports my conviction that the novel is an essential component in spiritual reading: ‘Fiction is nothing less than the subtlest instrument for self-examination and self-display that mankind has invented yet. Psychology and X-rays bring up some portentous shadows, and demographics and stroboscopic photography do some fine breakdowns, but for the full parfum and effluvia of being human, for feathery ambiguity and rank facticity, for the air and the iron, fire and spirit of our daily moral adventure there is nothing like fiction: it makes sociology look priggish, history problematical, the film media two-dimensional, and the National Enquirer as silly as last week’s cereal box….In fiction, everything that searchers for the important tend to leave out is left in.” (Take & Read: Spiritual Reading, An Annotated List by Eugene Peterson, pp. 48)


[image by Gibson Claire McGuire Regester]

Honestly, I’m pretty tired of all the ministry and self-help books (and by self-help I mean pastoral care, therapy stuff) that seem to be saying the same thing over and over again. It’s hard to tell them apart at times. It’s almost as if people are just rushing the books out to get published before the material becomes irrelevant. Before you think I’m being too harsh, let me say that I probably buy more ministry and self-help books than a lot of people. And many of them are super helpful.

But what I find missing in a lot of these books is a sense of imagination and narrative. Something that pulls me into what is being said, and isn’t simply reliant upon 7 steps to this, or 3 steps to this.

I have always loved novels, but I have been going back to them more and more frequently. I try to average about 2-3 novels a month, and I find myself re-reading some of them 5, 6 and 7 times over. And I’m going back and reading and re-reading the classics (and there are lots of lists).

The problem with steps is that we don’t know what to do when the formula doesn’t work. Steps don’t take into account the nuances of life and the dynamics of human interaction.

One of the things that I have found very fascinating is that I am about to complete my second reading of Susan Howatch’s Starbridge Series — 6 novels, over 2,500 pages of small print. Some of the novels I have read 7 times. And what is fascinating is that no reading is the same. Characters are constantly changing as I pick up different nuances, and as I enter into the various perspectives of the multiple narrators.

They are teaching me more about human nature. More about ministry. More about therapy. More about redemption. More about grace. Than any ministry or self-help books I have read.

So you don’t have to give up on your ministry and self-help books, but put them down for a season, and pick up a novel. Let a novel transform your thinking, your life, your relationships, and watch the power that will have on your ministry and therapeutic work.

Upcoming Trip to Haiti: Nothing to Offer But Our Vulnerable Selves

February 4, 2010 in Ministry-Theology, Technology-Social Media, Therapy-Psychology with 6 Comments


Last week I wrote about some of my initial thoughts on my upcoming trip to Haiti, and with each passing day I’m getting more and more excited, and a bit more nervous as well. One of the really exciting things is the coming together and completion of the team I will be serving with. The team is being sent out by Adventures in Missions, and is composed of Anne Jackson, Tim Schmoyer, Adam McLane, Mark Oestreicher, Seth Barnes, Jeremy Zach, Lars Rood, Clint Bokelman, Ian Robertson and myself. This is a great team of people and I’m excited to serve alongside of them in Haiti.

There are lots of things we will be doing on this trip, and there are still many unknowns, and like any trip abroad, we will just have to be flexible when opportunities arise. Mark Oestreicher has a good break down of some of the work that awaits us, as well as some of the things we will be doing among the Haitian pastors. What I do know is that we will be serving the people in Haiti and doing a lot of work with those who have fled out of Port au Prince and who are currently living in refugee camps.

One of the things that we have been asked to do along with serving the people of Haiti, is to also bring awareness to not only the situation that all of you are witnessing on the nightly news, but to also tell the stories of our personal experiences, and in doing so, hopefully encourage you, as well as further laying the foundation for future teams to follow after us, and serve long after Haiti is not the top story in the nightly news. If you are interested in following our journey you can do so at our team Facebook page, our team Twitter feed, or just stay tuned to this blog or my personal Facebook page. You have lots of options. I hope to do a good job of keeping you all updated through writing and video.

Offering Our Presence
I’m not a doctor, I’m not an engineer, and I’m not a professional in disaster relief, but I’m hoping and praying that my experience as a pastor and as a marriage and family therapist will come in handy as I work among the Haitians. And no, I’m not preaching sermons on performing therapy, but my work in those fields has given me the opportunity to travel the world and provide relief in the area of mental health. I was blessed to live for three months in Guatemala where I volunteered at Obras Sociales del Santo Hermano Pedro; I’ve been able to serve at the Sisters of Charity in Calcutta, India (the week of Mother Theresa’s funeral); I’ve been able to serve on several occasions at the Sisters of Charity in Mexico City. And my work as a college pastor allowed me the privilege to lead numerous trips during my eight years at Bel Air Presbyterian Church in Los Angeles. One of the real exciting things for me is that I’m not leading this trip, but just get to be a part of an amazing team. Continue Reading…

“Introverts in the Church” — Interview with Adam S. McHugh/Part 2

December 17, 2009 in Ministry-Theology, Technology-Social Media, Therapy-Psychology with 5 Comments

Adam McHughOn Tuesday I posted the first part of my interview with Adam McHugh (“Introverts in the Church” — Interview with Adam S. McHugh/Part 1), whom you can find blogging and writing here. As I’ve already said about a million times already, his new book, Introverts in the Church: Finding Our Place in an Extroverted Culture is a great book. It’s not too late to pick it up for Christmas…for the introverts and extroverts in your life. Everyone needs to read it. And I will go as far to say that if you are in ministry, it would be a shame if you didn’t read it–I think you would be missing out on a piece of the puzzle when it comes to how you serve, minister, understand and raise up other leaders.

Here is part 2:

R: What are the 2-3 most important things that can introverts teach us?

A: I’m glad you asked this question, because too often it seems that introversion is viewed as a liability, rather than a gift. I know I’ve been guilty of defining introversion in terms of what I’m not rather than what I am. Here are the two most important things I think introverts bring to the church: 1. The value of listening and 2. The need to slow down.

People in our culture so rarely have the experience of being truly listened to, of being given the space to express what’s on their hearts. Too often we speak over one another, interrupt one another, compete for space to speak. Because introverts process internally, and consider what they say before they speak, they can be incredible listeners. We offer a non-judgmental presence that helps others open up to us. Now, there’s more to listening than just not speaking, and it’s a discipline to be cultivated (my next book is about listening!), but introverts have a good start in becoming excellent listeners, communicating deep love for others through listening. I think listening is a tremendous asset in evangelism, which I talk about in chapter 8. Second, introverts often lead a slower, quieter, more contemplative lifestyle and we help people in our fast-paced culture slow down. We bring a calming presence to people and to our churches. Modern-day evangelicalism tends to be so full, so busy, so hurried and weighed down by agendas, and I say in the book that introverts are part of the antidote to what ails evangelical culture.

R: Let me throw out a couple of technologies that are being used in the Church and let me just get your response in regard to introverts. What would introverts think of twittering in the church? How about online church?

A: I knew you were going to ask me this! I’ll say first that, as an introvert, I am grateful for social media like Facebook and Twitter. It has helped me make connections, and deepen relationships, with people that I just don’t have the energy for in face-to-face situations. I’m often much better in writing than I am in person. But I do think there are inherent dangers in online communication, especially when it becomes a substitute for in-person relationships, and I worry when introverts spend far more time online than they do with people. Again, I address these issues in the book.

Twitter in church seems to be becoming the 21st century version of note-taking, but I actually think it’s an extroverted form of processing. Since it’s not acceptable to talk during a sermon, tweeting is a way that extroverts can think “aloud.” As a preacher, I can’t say I’m wild about the idea of people tweeting while I’m preaching. It seems like people in our technologically driven culture are in so many places at once, and perhaps worship should be one time a week that we seek to bring all of ourselves into unity– heart, mind, soul, body, and typing fingers.

As far as online church, I’m ambivalent. For people in countries where Christianity is banned, and for those people who simply will not cross the threshold of a church, then it’s a great thing. But, no matter how introverted you are, we all need embodied relationships and if we can’t find them in the body of Christ, then I’m not sure where we can find them. Second, people who are uncomfortable being in church are usually not resisting church attendance because of introversion but because of shyness, experiences of rejection, and other wounds. If we have been wounded by people and churches, then it seems to me that full healing will actually come when we find those people and churches, who communicate, in full, embodied form, the gentleness, compassion, and love of Jesus. I’m really grateful that the Son of God didn’t just get on a web-cam in heaven but actually incarnated into full human form and walked and lived among us. Online church may be an excellent step for many of those people, but my hope is that it is only a step.

R: What do you think is the most important takeaway for ministry for pastors who read this book? What will pastors learn from this book that will equip them better as a leader?

I devote two chapters in the book trying to demonstrate how pastors and other Christian leaders don’t have to keep masquerading as extroverts and can actually lead as introverts. That’s the main takeaway: lead as yourselves!! In chapter 6 I draw from biblical models of leadership, which center around character not personality, as well as models of leadership from the corporate and non-profit worlds which emphasize servant leadership, humility, reflection, and introspection. In chapter 7, the longest chapter, I go into ministry practicals for introverted leaders and discuss partnering with extroverts, following the model of Jesus in investing in “the few,” preaching as an introvert, and tailoring our jobs and schedules to suit our introverted rhythms and strengths.

R: I think you do a great job of dispelling the myth that those who retreated to the desert or to solitude were doing so to escape. Instead you seem to say that when we seek solitude we are better able to move forward into action because of the contemplation/solitude. Is that an accurate statement?

Henri Nouwen said that compassion is the fruit of solitude. When we go deep into ourselves and invite God to show us as we truly are, we find true identity. We find the good things about ourselves, our gifts, and also the ugly things – the jealousy, the fear, the anger, the desire to objectify and control others – but if we open ourselves to God’s grace in those ugly places, we can find deep compassion both for ourselves and for others. That compassion propels us to action and to works of mercy and justice. Before Jesus began his public ministry, he spent 40 days in the wilderness with only the word of God to sustain him. Throughout the history of the church, great leaders and highly influential people like St. Anthony, St. Patrick, Martin Luther, and countless others have found the impetus to love and to lead in solitude.

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