Tag Archive - Marriage-Family

Marriage: The Two Becoming One Is Not What You Think…

August 16, 2011 in Marriage-Family, Pastoral Counseling, Therapy-Psychology with 4 Comments


[image by The Welsh Poppy]

Differentiation is a natural process in committed relationships that involves developing more of a self while growing closer to your partner. Men often sacrifice their relationship to hold onto their sense of self. Women often sacrifice their sense of self to stabilize their relationship. Differentiation is about having it both ways: having a stronger sense of self and a stronger relationship. (An Interview with Dr. David Schnarch)

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Over the last couple of weeks there has been some back and forth online debate about writer Donald Miller’s two blog posts that eventually led to this post by him, How to Delete a Good Love Story — and writer Rachel Held Evans’ response with this blog post My Story Is More Interesting Than That.

It was pretty fascinating watching the online exchange and perusing through all of the online comments. Obviously as a Christian community we are often divided on what relationships and marriages look like. More specifically we tend to be divided on the roles and boundaries between men and women in relationship with one another.

I think that this is a fascinating topic and it’s one that is often at the forefront of my work with couples in counseling — and for that matter the Christian counseling/therapy community is divided as well.

As I was following some of this online conversation I was reminded of the words of two of my favorite poets….The Bohemian-Austrian poet Rainer Maria Rilke and the Lebanese American poet "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahlil_Gibran">Kahlil Girban.

One of the things that has drawn me to these two poets, especially when they write on love and marriage is the way in which they speak of relational boundaries, specifically what we talk of in marriage therapy as differentiation (paraphrasing David Schnarch: knowing where one begins, and one ends. Or the balance between one’s desire for belonging/relationship, and the desire for freedom/independence). This has always been intriguing to me, but even more so as I work with couples in therapy.

Knowing where one begins, and one ends in a relationship/marriage, as well as the balance between one’s desire for belonging and independence is something that I think Rilke and Gibran capture beautifully:

Rilke on Marriage…

“The point of marriage is not to create a quick commonality by tearing down all boundaries; on the contrary, a good marriage is one in which each partner appoints the other to be the guardian of his solitude, and thus they show each other the greatest possible trust. A merging of two people is an impossibility, and where it seems to exist, it is a hemming-in, a mutual consent that robs one party or both parties of their fullest freedom and development. But once the realization is accepted that even between the closest people infinite distances exist, a marvelous living side-by-side can grow up for them, if they succeed in loving the expanse between them, which gives them the possibility of always seeing each other as a whole and before an immense sky.”

……….

“To love is good, too: love being difficult.

For one human being to love another: that is perhaps the most difficult of all our tasks, the ultimate, the last test and proof, the work for which all other work is but preparation.

For this reason young people, who are beginners in everything, cannot yet know love: they have to learn it.

With their whole being, with all their forces, gathered close about their lonely, timid, upward-beating heart, they must learn to love.

But learning-time is always a long, secluded time, and so loving, for a long while ahead and far on into life, is–solitude, intensified and deepened loneness for him who loves.

Love is at first not anything that means merging, giving over, and uniting with another (for what would a union be of something unclarified and unfinished, still subordinate–?), it is a high inducement to the individual to ripen, to become something in himself for another’s sake, it is a great exacting claim upon him, something that chooses him out and calls him to vast things.”

Kahlil Gibran, “The Prophet”

“THEN Almitra spoke again and said, And what of Marriage, master?
And he answered saying:
You were born together, and together you shall be for evermore.
You shall be together when the white wings of death scatter your days.
Aye, you shall be together even in the silent memory of God.
But let there be spaces in your togetherness.
And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.
Love one another, but make not a bond of love:
Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other’s cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf.
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music.

Give your hearts, but not into each other’s keeping. For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts. And stand together yet not too near together: For the pillars of the temple stand apart, And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other’s shadow.”

When the Two Become One
One of the biggest issues for Christian couples who come into counseling is their conflict over the role expectations of one another in the marriage. These missed expectations often lead to lots of relational boundary issues and conflict over one’s sense of self in marriage. I think in many communities there is a belief that when “the two become one” (Mark 10:8/Genesis 2:24) that means that they are to lose each other and their sense of self in their marriage.

More commonly in the Christian community it has been expected that the woman is to give up her sense of self for her husband. In my experience as a pastor and therapist and husband…expecting a spouse to give up themselves for the marriage tends to only lead to resentment and anger and conflict. A withdrawing from the marriage, rather than an engagement with one another. It is also very common in some more traditional Christian marriages that a spouse’s dissatisfaction with the marriage will be less likely to find a voice, but instead remains silent. Only leading to more and more missed expectations that are not communicated.

And often we have assumed that when “the two become one” the are to totally be dependent upon one another for each other’s needs and satisfaction in the marriage and in life. That is a tall order that not even the most well adjusted spouse can fulfill.

In reflecting on all of this I have really just come to appreciate the work of Terry Hargrave and Shawn Stoever in their book Five Days to a New Marriage. This is the model that was developed at The Hideaway where I am on staff, and it is a model that I have seen help create more healthy marriages than any others.

I like that in this model marriage is not solely dependent upon our partner. Too many spouses are sitting around waiting and expecting for their spouse to meet and fulfill every need. Sure, our partner has a role to play and there is a mutual interdependency that occurs. But ultimately, as Christians our marriage and our sense of self is dependent upon God, and not on others. We must learn to take responsibility for our own selves in marriage and not wait for our partner to meet every need. A truly healthy marriage is two people in a relationship taking responsibility for themselves in order that they are better able to be in a position to respond to their spouses.

So ultimately, we live a great love story when our life is anchored and dependent in Christ, not solely dependent on others for our wants and needs. And when we are in the position of dependency upon Christ, then we are truly freed to respond out of a place of love and trust in a relationship of mutuality and reciprocity with our spouses. (Ephesians 5:21).

Writings on Marriage, Katy Perry and Grace…

May 10, 2011 in Marriage-Family, Ministry-Theology, Pastoral Counseling, Pastoral Leadership with 1 Comment

Here’s a list of three pretty distinct articles that I wrote or contributed to in the last month. Check them out and let me know what you think.

Transform Your Marriage at the Start Marriage Right blog.

Katy Perry’s Comments Prompt the Question: How Strict Is Too Strict? at the Christian Post website.

Avoiding Grace at the POTSC blog.

What If? The Scariest and Most Crucial Question in a Relationship

June 18, 2010 in Marriage-Family, Ministry-Theology, Therapy-Psychology with 5 Comments

I feel like I do some of my best thinking and reflecting while out on a run. And while I was running yesterday a few stanzas from the Coldplay song, What If? really stuck out to me…

What if you should decide
That you don’t want me there by your side
That you don’t want me there in your life

Ooh ooh-ooh, that’s right
Let’s take a breath, jump over the side
Ooh ooh-ooh, that’s right
How can you know it, if you don’t even try
Ooh ooh-ooh, that’s right

Every step that you take
Could be your biggest mistake
It could bend or it could break
That’s the risk that you take (Coldplay, What If?)

The song stuck out to me for several reasons…

  1. There is a great amount of relational anxiety in the relationship being described.  The artist doesn’t know if the person will be there by their side…it’s an option the other person has, completely out of the control of the other.  The artist doesn’t know if they will “bend or break”…and there is an element of risk involved.  The risk involves anxiety, but to not push through the anxiety may forfeit the opportunity for the relationship and for growth.

  2. As people we love the words and songs of poets and artists.  We love the songs about relationships, especially ones that involve an element of risk and not knowing.  We wonder, “Will that person be there on the other side” in the romance movies we watch and the songs that we sing.  BUT, we don’t like to have this experience ourselves.  It’s all fine and dandy to sing about and to watch on the silver screen, but when it comes to taking these risks and venturing forth through the anxiety in our own relationships, we often choose to sit on the sidelines, seeking comfort and security.

  3. This is the predicament of all relationships.  At some point you will have a choice before you…two options (marriage and sex therapist David Schnarch refers to it as Two-Choice Dillemas).  Do you stay in the place of comfort and safety which is actually a threat to your relationship, or do you venture out into the unknown, facing the anxiety, hoping for growth in the relationship.

These reasons make us all ask “What If? in our relationships, our families, our faith, our vocations and more.

I love how David Schnarch puts it:

How do you find the trust to go “exploring” with your spouse? Many couples think it’s based on safety and security, which means staying in the comfort cycle. Trust can be based on a pact you’ll never leave the inner circle (comfort/safety), or developed from a trip through the growth cycle. But the trust that results is totally different: before you’ve ventured into the outer circle (growth), trust is based on blind faith. It lacks the safety and security of knowing how you’ll do when “what if” happens; it is an uneasy trust, an untested trust. What’s actually required is the leaf of faith, because real safety follows rather than precedes your first trip through the growth cycle. Trust based on shared mutual experience and hardship–watching what your partner and you do under pressure and adversity–is solid and resilient. (Passionate Marriage, David Schnarch)

So hold onto yourself, face your anxiety and take the leap knowing that if you don’t, then you may also forfeit any opportunities for relational and spiritual growth.

Anxiety is the dizziness of freedom, which emerges when the spirit wants to posit the synthesis and freedom looks down into possibility, laying hold of finiteness to support itself. Freedom succumbs in this dizziness. Further than this, psychology cannot and will not go. In that very moment everything is changed, and freedom, when it again rises, sees that it is guilty. Between these two moments lies the leap, which no science has explained and which no science will explain. (The Concept of Anxiety by Soren Kierkegaard)

You Are Texting Who? A Conversation You Need to Have With Your Spouse

March 22, 2010 in Marriage-Family, Technology-Social Media, Therapy-Psychology with 11 Comments


[image by globevisions]


One of the things that seems to be a common trend among couples I work with in therapy is that there is an assumption about the relational boundaries that each of them will/are keeping. There is an assumption, but rarely something they have ever actually discussed.

I think they are rarely discussed because: 1) there is a fear that when discussed they will realize they aren’t on the same page, therefore leading to conflict. 2) since they assume they are on the same page, they feel no need to talk about them.

So here are some examples of common assumptions.

We assume that our partner will never cheat on us…but we don’t talk about some healthy relational boundaries to help us from being in vulnerable positions.

We assume our partner won’t go to an intimate lunch alone with someone of the opposite sex…but we don’t actually talk about that boundary.

We assume our partner won’t be texting people of the opposite sex late into the night about personal things..but we don’t talk about that boundary.

We assume that our partner won’t befriend their ex on Facebook and strike up a renewed friendship…but we don’t talk about that boundary.

Etc. Etc. Etc. Fill in your own assumption here.

I give these examples because they are some of the most common ones I come across.

Though there are several areas of boundaries I mentioned, one of the reasons that I mention text messaging is because it is constantly being cited by partners as a source of marital conflict. And with the privacy of cell phones, and the ease of texting, couples are able to hide things from each other, or avoid any type of accountability.

So what are you waiting for? Start having some conversations with your partner about what you assume are relational boundaries you both share, but you have never ever talked about. And I promise you that it will be both eye opening and helpful in you relationship growth.

Lest you think I don’t practice what I preach, just last week I sat down with my wife over coffee and initiated a conversation about the women that I send text messages to on occasion, what is said, and the purpose of the text. Did I feel that my texts were out of line? No. Does my wife trust me? Yes. But I realized that maybe I had some assumptions about those boundaries around texting. I wanted to make sure we talked them over. That we both had the same boundaries. That there wasn’t/isn’t any inappropriateness, etc. That she was comfortable with who I was texting and why. And that simple conversation led to one great conversation after another, and to some great relational connecting time between us.

Boundaries vary for everyone. Some people would say you should “never” (with some exceptions) text someone of the opposite sex when married. Others disagree. But if you haven’t talked about it, how do you know where you both stand on that issue in your relationship?

If you are afraid to have these conversations with your partner, then I would say that’s all the more reason to have them. What are you hiding?

So When Did You First Realize You Were Addicted to Your Smartphone?

March 10, 2010 in Marriage-Family, Technology-Social Media, Therapy-Psychology with 11 Comments

You ever read a really great book? So great that you just want to underline all of it?



That’s how I felt about this article that I came across some time last week, Obsessed with smartphones, oblivious to the here and now — and to be honest…it freaked me out a bit.

Since I am someone who loves technology and online social media I think it’s easy to overlook some of its faults. Since I have been blogging for six years, and use Twitter everyday, and connect with friends on Facebook, it’s easy for me to not realize how these things slowly shape and transform me.

This article, like many other things before it, have been waking me from my stupor. Instead of taking “the numb stance of the technological idiot”, (Thanks John Dyer for turning me on to this idea) I’m hoping to be a better consumer of the technology that I use.

There are many turning points when I realized I was addicted to my smartphone, but these two stand out the most.

  1. Texting constantly while at a Coldplay concert. It’s like I couldn’t just enjoy being present at a live concert.
  2. Texting while at the zoo with my daughter instead of just enjoying being at the zoo with her.
  3. And on, and on, and on the instances I could tell you.

When did you first realize that you were addicted to your smartphone?



Here are some choice selections from the article that stood out to me, with some highlighted areas that really hit me between the eyes.

You see these tethered souls everywhere: The father joining in an intense Twitter debate at his daughter’s dance recital. The woman cracking wise on Facebook while strolling through the mall. The guy on a date reviewing his fish tacos on Yelp. Not to mention drivers staring down instead of through their windshields.

Physically, they are present. Mentally, they are elsewhere, existing as bits of data pinging between cellphone towers.

……….

Doomsayers have long predicted that technological progress would turn us into shut-ins who rarely venture from our game-playing, IM-ing digital cocoons out into the physical world. But the stereotype of the computer-addicted recluse in the basement has been blown away; smartphones make it possible to turn off the physical world while walking through it.

A recent Pew Research Center study found that “a significant proportion of people who visit public and semipublic spaces are online while in those spaces.” Parks. Libraries. Restaurants. Houses of worship.

……….

The competition this digital world poses stretches into life’s most intimate places. Elizabeth Sloan, a local marriage counselor, worked with a couple after the husband began surfing his smartphone during sex.

“I wish I was joking,” Sloan said. “This is a real hot topic right now for marriage counselors — and the complaints are coming from men and women. You hear this a lot: ‘I can’t reach you. I can’t find you. You can be sitting two inches from me, but you are not there. Where are you?’ Spouses are checking out at dinner, on vacation. It’s really become a 24-7 thing.”

……….

Gravity Tank, a Chicago consulting firm, recently studied app users. The smallest group, “recent converts,” just dabble in apps. “Life optimizers” use apps as an extension of their brain, organizing every minute of their day. Then there’s the largest group, the “constantly entertained,” such as Ferrari and Granetz, who covet data and fear boredom.

……….

Why is the seemingly random — and admittedly often meaningless — information that Ferrari and Granetz crave more compelling to them than playing pony with their children? It is not because they are bad parents, psychologists say. It is not because they are men. (Sorry, ladies.) It is because they are human, and human beings tend to repeat actions that are pleasurable and rewarding, particularly if they get our endorphins flowing. The complication is that we devalue delayed rewards — the feeling, for instance, of looking back on lovely moments with family — in favor of the immediacy of the new. In this case, it’s data. It makes us high.

……….

“Smartphones capitalize on the weaker, short-term version of ourselves rather than helping us focus on the long view,” Stafford said.

They also help fill in the silent gaps in relationships, said Naomi Baron, an American University linguist who studies digital communication. “You can’t assume we always have something to say to each other,” she said. “Why do restaurants play music in the background? Because otherwise there’s the uncomfortable dead silence.”

So the dead space fills with more silence, and the intimacy that should be happening face-to-face now occurs between cellphone towers. A brief check on Facebook to fill silence with the missis turns into a 20-minute digital conversation. And a spouse watches her loved one slip away.

“This is not always the issue that brings couples to counseling, but eventually it comes out,” said Erin Morey, a family therapist in McLean. “There’s this isolation, the feeling that their partner is more connected to the gadget.”

Chad and Sarah Markley Interview #3: Moving Forward

March 5, 2010 in Marriage-Family, Ministry-Theology, Therapy-Psychology with 1 Comment

I really appreciate Chad and Sarah opening up so much of their life with us this week. One of the reasons that I wanted to interview them was because I think that their story is, and can be so helpful to many other couples out there — and on so many levels.

And if you aren’t already reading their blogs, you definitely should be.

The final interview (3/3) is below, and you can catch up on the previous two in the links below.

You can read Part 1: here
You can read Part 2: here

This is Part 3 of 3

Sarah, I know you are working on a book and I was wondering if you could share how that process is going?

Sarah: I’m about 50 percent finished with my rough draft. I’m still actively seeking representation and a publisher. When it’s done it will be a creative retelling of my story focusing on redemption and hope but also explaining the factors that led me to the place I ended up.

You seem like you are a very creative family (writing, music, technology, etc.), and I was wondering what creative things you like to do together as a family?

Sarah: We try to give our kids as many experiences as possible without overwhelming them. I’m not talking Disneyland every day, but we do love to go to the science museum or the nature center and try to travel as much as we can as a family. Our girls love to draw and do crafts at the kitchen table. Chad often plays the guitar for them in the evenings and the three of them like to make up songs together. Our girls are involved in sports, dance and horseback riding. They know I’m writing a book and that I write daily on my blog.

Thirteen years in, what do you think is the best thing about marriage?

Sarah: Hands down: being married to my best friend is the best thing about marriage. And the fact that we each know most of each other’s faults and strengths is so comforting too. He knows all the bad things I’ve done and I know the same about him. Somehow we still love one another deeply.

Chad:For me it is shared experience. I love having someone to share the important moments with, both good and bad.

You mention that the two of you saw a counselor, so I’m naturally curious about the role that played in your recovery, if any?

Sarah: We went to see a Christian marriage and family counselor the week after my confession. She came highly recommended by a friend of our pastor’s and we met with her weekly for 6 months. At that time she moved to a different state and transferred us to another counselor in the same practice. We met with her weekly for another six months as well. Both counselors met different needs in us. The first one, besides helping us address the immediate problems, addressed Chad’s ADD and referred him to a psychiatrist so he could seek medication. The second therapist helped us to develop better methods of communication and walked us through some difficult times that occurred later in that same year.

Chad: Counseling was KEY!! People are crazy to think their pastor can understand every single crazy thing they are going through. It was important to me that the counselor was well trained and credentialed in their field AND was a Christ follower. We were able to find both of these at Center for Individual and Family Therapy.

How much information, if any, have you shared with your children?

Sarah: Our daughters are almost 4 and almost 8. We haven’t shared much with them. I plan on sharing some (limited) information with my oldest daughter in the near future. We agree that sooner is better than later when it comes to things like this, as long as it is age appropriate.

What are your hopes for the couples that you share your story with? What do you hope they walk away with?

Sarah:I would hope that they can see that no sin is too big for God’s grace, that God’s love is able to heal in mighty ways (even a heart which has been wounded as deeply as my husband’s) and that it is very possible to “come back” from something like this. Nothing in God’s kingdom is wasted and even something as horrible as what I did and what we went through, God has been using time and time again for His glory.

Do the two of you have any dreams and hopes for sharing your story with others? Speaking to churches, couples, etc.?

Sarah: I hesitate to use the word “dream”. “Hope” is a better word for what we would like to see happen, I think. We spoke together for the first time a couple months ago and when we did we felt right in the middle of our gifting. We worked well together with great chemistry and I think it was very effective. We hope to speak more in that manner. I also will be speaking by myself in the near future.

As a couple, what are you two really passionate about? What shared interests do you have that you really feel connected when you do together?

Sarah: As funny as this sounds, we love to talk about theology, social networking or technology. We are sort of geeks when you get us by ourselves. We have a shared love for people, our kids and our families. We’ll try anything new and we love love love to travel together. Go to a new city, explore the restaurants, walking routes and museums. Our favorite cities are London, Washington, D.C., Paris and Monterey, California. And before we had kids, we used to exercise together (gasp). Now we have to do that alone while the other sleeps in with the kids.

We’re passionate about real living and genuine Christ-following. We have a desire to see people talk about their stories with authenticity and to follow hard after Christ with true motivations behind what they do. We don’t like to “do church” for the sake of “doing church”. Worship, community, learning about God’s word and getting closer to Him — we desire to see people live this out in their lives between Sundays.

Chad: I echo what Sarah lists above but I need to also include my love of worship and music. I LOVE bringing people into worship ANYWHERE and ANYTIME I can get the opportunity.

How have your relationships with God changed as a result of the affair and the healing that has taken place?

Sarah: I often wonder if I was a true Christ-follower before my confession six years ago. I don’t know. There were times in my life that I sincerely wanted to do the right things and please God, but for the most part, my relationship with God before was lifeless and not based on a true love for Him. When I decided to give up the affair and focus on my marriage, my spirit, my heart and my soul was broken. I wanted to be different and the only way to do that was to follow Christ with my whole life. I read through the Bible in one year and I could feel and see the spiritual gifting that I’d suppressed begin to emerge again. I fell in love with Christ and I wanted to do everything possible to live righteously. Finally my Christianity was “real.”

Chad: I have a more realistic expectation of people now. I realize EVERYONE fails and no one is above falling into horrible sin. I also have come to the place where I realize it isn’t too late for anyone to come back to Christ. I think I see people more with His eyes now versus my own.

Chad and Sarah Markley Interview #2: In Process

March 3, 2010 in Marriage-Family, Ministry-Theology, Therapy-Psychology with 0 Comments

To read part 1 of my interview with Sarah and Chad Markley, read here.

In the interview today, I really wanted to focus on some of the questions that arose for me as I read Sarah’s blog posts about their story. It was in these blog entries that I really got a sense of a person–of a couple in process. So, much of the interview today was focused on getting a better sense of some of the things–some of the processes, boundaries and reasons behind much of her writing.

This is Part 2 of 3

Sarah, in your post Stifling, you talk about you being a controlling wife and Chad as being distance…or moving away from you as you became controlling. How do you now deal with the control issues?

Sarah: With grace. It’s part of my personality to be guarded, protective and thus a little controlling. I’m guarded with my time, energy and affection so when I wasn’t following Christ that transferred over into me being a demanding, selfish and controlling wife. After my confession we decided to “try out” living (as husband and wife) the way God intended: the husband lovingly leading and the wife graciously allowing him. I began to give up control. That has been one of the most freeing things I’ve ever done.

You make the comment in Cliches “No one wakes up one day and decides to commit adultery. I don’t know what other people have told you, but something like this takes a hundred million tiny poorly-made decisions layered on top of one another. Never excuses, but certainly reasons.” Do you think couples are often naïve of the small, tiny, daily choices they make, perhaps because they are so focused on trying to stay clear of making the big, wrong choice? Do you recommend how spouses can stay accountable in their day to day choices?

Sarah: I think that most couples will say that it could never happen to them. And only sometimes do I see couples who intentionally try to remain pure in the little things: glances, fantasy thoughts, discipline in keeping things alive between them and their spouse. So, yes, in a way I think that many couples are unaware of how little things can build up to really bad things. Even things like letting a self-serving attitude creep into a heart can make one “ready” to have an affair. With me, my heart became ripe for an affair because of pride and selfishness. How do we remain accountable? We are honest with each other, ourselves and with God. We are also both in strong, godly, same-gendered accountability relationships too in which the others have access to our spiritual lives, our hearts and motivations. A simple way to find out if an action or a thought is “unsafe” is to ask both your spouse and God if what you are doing is honoring to both your spouse and to the Lord. If you are scared to bring it up or talk about it, or if you deem it dishonoring, then the action or thought is probably a wrong choice. And you must be honest.

I loved the vivid imagery of a leaky colander, as you try to hold everything together in Dripping. What do you do now when you notice you are trying to hold everything together?

Sarah: Usually I crack emotionally, anger or tears and then I realize (from routine, experience) what I need to do to get it back together and on the right path both emotionally and spiritually. Sometimes I take a quick break by myself, sometimes I simply just tell Chad that I need a few minutes to be alone, and sometimes I need to spend time in specific prayer about it. But overall, it seems like God has brought me to a place where, even though I do get “off balance” once in awhile, I’ve been able to learn how to regain my balance and moderation.

Crash was so powerful, and while I was reading it, I kept trying to imagine what that would be like to be in that position. Sarah, how did you make it through that night? Chad, I was just thinking of how scary a night that was for you. Not only because of the news you were told, but of the possible reality you faced of having to raise your young girl alone, etc. What were you feeling, and how did you hold it together?

Sarah: Chad told me to go to my parent’s house to tell them what I did. I went, I confessed to them too and they lovingly welcomed me in. They were, of course, grieved, disappointed and hurt but they were able to love me even through their own pain. I was a mess, but somehow I made it through the night. Early on I was able to be very sorrowful about my sin and I felt immediately motivated to do whatever I needed to to make it right with God, Chad and the others I had hurt.

Chad: That night I wasn’t thinking so much about the future as I was feeling the hurt of betrayal and feeling like an idiot because I hadn’t seen what was going on the last 3+ years. I am not the biggest planner in the world so I don’t often think too far ahead. I was just dealing with the “now” of the situation, not so much the future.

Chad, I was really amazed by your almost immediate willingness to forgive Sarah. Sarah mentions that you didn’t want to, but you felt compelled to because of all that Christ had forgiven you of. Even though you forgave her that night was there a longer process that took place, or did it feel instant to you?

It was both instant and a process. I think it’s similar to salvation and the process of sanctification that follows. The big push is instant, salvation, we are changed in that moment. When I forgave Sarah it was legit and from the deepest core of my person. In that instant our relationship was changed. The actual living out of that choice, sanctification, takes time to process, take root and grow. It took about 6 months for the ache in the middle of the night to fully go away.

Sarah, in your final post Foundation you write, “I was done with my old self. I removed phone numbers from my phone, took pages out of my address book and deleted emails and voicemail messages. I began to try to erase all that had gone before. And God softened the hard places of my heart and brought me close.” I’m curious about this process, and what you now think of the ease with which people can connect and reconnect with people and past relationships online. Do you have certain boundaries online that the two of you hold to?

Sarah: Online: we know each other’s passwords to everything. Even though we don’t snoop, he is privy to all of my phone numbers, my text messages, my emails. I keep nothing from him. And the same with him.

The whole Facebook thing is interesting. Of course, that became very popular years after I had my affair, so during that time it was not a concern. But now, we are just careful to not friend ex-boyfriends or girlfriends and not to be overly friendly or conversational with members of the opposite sex.

The process of trying to “erase” the past was difficult and long. I did know one thing for certain: that I wanted nothing to do with my old life. So I began to try to get rid of the physical reminders (and temptations) that surrounded that old lifestyle. I never made another phone call or sent another email to the man I had the affair with.

The whole memory thing was the most difficult, however. I prayed for God to erase memories from my mind. I promised that I would share with Chad any detail he needed to know. And for a while he asked. But after some time passed, if he asked questions about the past it only served to bring up bad memories I was trying to forget. After time he stopped asking because there was no need for any more details. I have forgotten a great deal of the detailed memories (on purpose) but I still have some memory of that time. I think just enough to remind me how far I’d walked away from God and from my husband.

If you could give any piece of advice to married couples who are going through difficult times, what would it be?

Sarah: I think that couples need to count the cost of their relationship. Marriage will never be easy and will always require intentional work. If both people are willing to do whatever it takes to stay together for the endurance race then it will pay off in increasing love, intimacy and selflessness.

Chad: I agree with Sarah 100%! It all comes down to what you are willing to “pay” for the marriage. We see the price Christ places on us when we look at what the Cross cost Him.

Stay Tuned for Part 3…

Chad and Sarah Markley Interview #1: Their Story

March 2, 2010 in Marriage-Family, Ministry-Theology, Therapy-Psychology with 6 Comments

There are people online that I have never met in person, but that I feel like I know them. And those people I one day look forward to meeting in person. Just two of those people are Chad and Sarah Markley.

I randomly came across Chad online one day because we were following each other on Twitter and we shared some mutual friends that I have actually met in person (one of those being Rich Kirkpatrick). And then separately, I came across Sarah’s writing because of a tweet by Anne Jackson mentioning her. I’ve been a fan of Sarah’s blog ever since. In fact, my wife and I have often talked about Sarah’s writings, and things we have learned about marriage and relationships from them.

One of the things that has drawn me to Chad and Sarah Markley is their story–and not only their story–but their authenticity and vulnerability in which it is told. Sarah sums it up in these three short sentences on her blog:

I cheated on my husband nine years ago. I was lost and without hope. But God rescued me, my husband forgave me, and I am living a new life.

It’s an amazing story full of pain, sadness, forgiveness, hope and redemption. A story of two remarkable people that were held together and strengthened by a loving God.

It is because of their story that I wanted to interview them. It’s a story that I hear over and over again in my work as a marriage and family therapist and pastor. And in talking with them, I hope that their story can enlighten your own, and possibly help bring about hope and healing where it is needed. As well as helping couples read the warning signs in their own marriage.

This is Part 1 of 3.

How did you come to the decision that you wanted your story to be more visible and available for others to read and hear about?

Sarah: I knew that I’d be sharing my story eventually by writing a book and initially I thought I owed it to my blog readers to share with them first what God had done in my life before I become ultra-public by trying to get a book published. I had no idea that this story would attract so many new readers to my blog and reach out to a generation of women (and men) who have been hurt by infidelity.

Now we, as a couple, feel as if it is a calling to share our story with others

What were some of the lack of boundaries in your own marriage? Have you changed any boundaries in that setting? Can you give us any examples?

Sarah: We used to meet members of the opposite sex for lunch or at the gym. In fact, we used to do things alone with opposite gendered friends all the time: long phone conversations and emails. We didn’t really see anything wrong with it because we used each other for our measures of morality. If what I was doing wasn’t bothering my husband than it was okay for me to do. I wasn’t using God to determine if what I was doing was right or wrong. Our boundaries have changed immensely since my confession 6 years ago. (Sarah has written more on this topic here).

Chad: We make it a point to remind each other we are the others “number one”, especially in public. I need Sarah to know she is my only girl, but I also need others to understand she is my “number one” and vice versa.

What are some early warning signs of an emotional affair that you think many people overlook?

Sarah: Simply giving away too much of yourself. Sharing intimate thoughts, dreams or concerns in the name of “friendship” with someone of the opposite sex who is not your spouse is treading on dangerous ground. When you find yourself thinking about someone else, watching for them, dressing for them, finding excuses to talk to them – those are also bad signs.

Chad: I agree with Sarah. Things begin to get sideways when we get tired of working through things with our spouse and begin to look for “easier” outlets for our emotional, and eventually, and physical needs

What role, if any, do you think pornography played in your decision to have an affair?

Sarah: Pornography created an unattainable and unrealistic view of sex in my mind. I began to desire things that were outside of the realm of what intimacy in marriage should be. It became something that I needed (whether actually viewing it or thinking about it) to become aroused. So when I found myself in an inappropriate emotional relationship with another man, the sexual aspect of it just seemed less “sinful” because I was already fantasizing regularly in my mind.

Chad: I pulled Porn into our marriage to try and “liven” it up. It had been part of my personal sexual journey since 2nd grade and had poisoned my view and expectation of sex to a significant degree. When I introduced it into our marriage I subsequently brought that same level of unrealistic expectation into the marriage bed. The outcome was tragic and I believe was instrumental in opening doors that may have never been opened otherwise.

Stay tuned for Part 2…

Limits On Our Knowledge of the Other Person

February 9, 2010 in Marriage-Family, Ministry-Theology, Therapy-Psychology with 0 Comments

I think we live in a culture that likes mystery, but we don’t want to go too long without that mystery being solved and unraveled so that it answers all of our questions. I can’t imagine too many viewers of LOST being satisfied after this last season if the mysteries aren’t made completely known to them. Or think about how we often fail in our attempts to simply let God remain mysterious in how we does things. We try to answer all questions, and somehow feel like if we don’t have all the answers than we are somehow not being the right type of Christian.

We also take this mentality into relationships as well. When we meet that other person our desire often seems to begin the process of unraveling the mystery that is before us in that other person. That’s why we spend countless hours on the phone talking, in conversation over dinner, emailing, sending texts, playing together, etc. We believe that the more we know, the more mystery that is solved, then somehow we are better off. Or that somehow we are more intimately connected because of the knowledge of each other that has passed between us. I remember many early days in dating, especially back in high school where you spent countless hours early on just telling the other person all about you. The more they told, the more close you felt. We wanted to unravel the layers to get to the core of who they were, their personality, etc. — as soon as possible.

But I’m beginning to realize that we are more mysterious to each other than we often give credit for, or even allow. Last week I wrote on the topic of allowing your spouse the freedom to be who they are, and the mysteries that are often a part of our marriage.

The more work I do as a therapist, the more convinced I am that we can truly never know what goes on in a marriage. And often, spouses can rarely know all the mysteries of the person they are married too.

It’s something that I have to push back on myself about. Some mysteries will remain in my work with people as a therapist, and it’s not my goal to find them out. Some mysteries will remain in our work as a pastor as we try and communicate the work of God in people’s lives. And it’s not our job to have answers to all of them.

Last night I finished Scandalous Risks by Susan Howatch (it’s the 4th of 6th novels in the Starbridge Series which centers on the clergy of the Church of England through the last century. It’s an amazing series which I have read two times before, even reading some of the novels up to seven times. I can’t recommend them enough, and Howatch’s storytelling through various narrators in each novel reminds that we are perceived in many different ways by many different people. That in essence we are a mystery to others, and not all questions can be answered.

As I finished the book last night I read this quote that I want to leave with you…a quote that better says what I have tried to say in the words above.

“But surely you know the whole truth about the Bishop?”

Mrs Ashworth smiled. Then she said:  “When I first met Charles long ago in 1937 he seemed very straightforward, a successful young clergyman from a comfortable middle-class home.  But the reality behind the glittering image was far more complex, I assure you, then I could ever have imagined, and even now I daresay there are still mysteries in his past which I shall never unravel.”  She hesitated but added:  “He was a widower when I met him.  He’s talked to me about the first marriage, but not in a way that has ever encouraged me to dig deep into what actually happened.  I’d like to know more, of course, but I’ve accepted that there’s nothing more he has to say: I’ve accepted that there’s a limit on our knowledge of even those who are closest to us.  The older one gets the more one realises how saturated life is in mystery, and the biggest mystery of all, it often seems to me, is the mystery of the human personality.” (pp. 438)

That’s Not Who I Married: Allowing Your Spouse the Freedom to Be

January 21, 2010 in Marriage-Family, Therapy-Psychology with 15 Comments


[image by Adam Foster]

“That’s not who I married!”

It’s a response I often hear as I sit across from couples in therapy. At this point in the relationship one, or both of the spouses has become angered, disillusioned, sad (name the feeling/emotion) over what they feel is a loss of the person that they dated, became engaged to, and eventually married. They are desperately trying to get back to those early days, maybe capture those early feelings.

But the fact remains that each of them has changed. It’s part of the process of growing as a person. In fact, I would worry if the spouse was still the same, had never changed, and was the same today as they were on their wedding days years ago.

There are things that often stay pretty consistent about us throughout our life and marriage. Maybe it’s the temperament of the person, their favorite books to read, how they take their coffee in the morning, etc. Whatever it may be, there are markers that stay pretty consistent that give one spouse a pretty good knowledge of the other spouse.

But then there are things that may change such as hobbies, friendships, styles of food, music, or maybe even a move from extroversion to introversion. Sometimes the changes are so subtle that we may not notice in the busyness of life, or sometimes they may become so apparent that we feel like the “rules” of the marriage have been re-written without our knowledge or input on the matter. Continue Reading…
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