Recently I have been thinking a lot about the topic of bivocational pastors.
When I say bivocational, I mean you are a pastor, but you are not a full-time employed pastor. Being a pastor is not your full-time vocation.
There are lots of reasons I have been thinking on this subject, but I will be writing more at length about that later.
It seems like the last few years I have been engaged in more and more conversations on this issue, and I know more and more pastors who are entering the ministry as a bivocational pastor. I see it most with my church planter friends, yet even many of them hope to maintain the bivocational role, rather than doing it “full-time.”
There are lots of reasons why I went back to graduate school to study marriage and family therapy: 1) I needed more therapy training I felt so I could be a better pastor; 2) I knew that within a few years I was hoping to move out of “full-time” vocational ministry work.
I will pick up on this subject in this blog over the next few days, but I hope you could answer this question for me.
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This is something we’ve been toying around with in my family…
The implications are huge, as a full-time pastor draws their living from the congregation… The congregation they’ve been charged to take care of; minister to; rebuke….
I think of how many hard words from the Lord have failed to have been delivered because pastors are afraid that if they correct the congregation, they won’t be able to put food on the table the next week.
Bivocationalism alleviates a little of this tension and, frankly, allows those of us in ministry to make ends meet in other ways!
can't wait to hang out at Cultivate and talk about this and many other things…great thoughts.
Justin,
Well, you’ve basically begun to summarize some of my thoughts, questions, concerns, etc.
I’m going to be writing a little more on just exactly what you are bringing up.
I’ve been in full-time ministry many years, and just recently moved into a more bivocational role.
I have had concerns about some pastors who have chosen not to talk about certain topics, etc. out of fear that “the people with the money would leave the church.” Then begins the vicious cycle. I’ve heard that as a reasons from others and them many times.
So I start thinking about this then….
rhett
Hey Rhett,
Very good topic (not that your other ones lack anything but this one is good). Honestly, I am torn between this because I work full time in the secular world but will soon branch back out into ministry.
My current job almost represents a good escape from the “churchworld” and in a sense to be around normal people. Churches represent a full culture all on their own, with their own language, clothes, etc.
Also, when you are the guy leading it, you are the one to talk to about everything. It can create burnout. Teamwork is a multiyear project that usually has to start from that leader. Not to mention a college ministry never has consistent leadership.
So, this should be a fun topic to read. =)
teamwork is key…we just have so often relied on a full-time staff..will be interesting to see how the church responds as I think bivocational ministry becomes more common place.
I’m currently working for a ministry, myself, and pastoring. It’s a schedule frenzy. But the fam is involved in most every aspect.
it is a frenzy…still thinking on what bivocational ministry can sometimes do to the family life…craziness at times. I'm doing it myself.
Rhett,
I feel like I am having this exact conversation more and more recently. I left my job as a vocational pastor a couple months ago. Justin hit some points I won’t belabor but I agree with him (and have had this conversation with him as well).
Not only does bivocationalism remove the tension introduced by the paycheck (between pastor and their ‘employer’) – it also puts the pastor in the role of cultural creator in a way working for only the church never could.
As kingdom people we have a dual citizenship – pastors included. Intrinsic to being a good citizen in both is the mandate to create – to be involved. By vocationally contributing in a way other than ‘ministry’ (being the best artist, banker, entrepreneur possible) we are inherently more valuable to society and the kingdom.
In simple business terms: when something is of value the market pays for it. If we could structure churches, businesses, non-profits to think this way we would win twice. First, by contributing our product/service/idea to the world and being rewarded with a living — and second, using the resource ($, networks, influence, expertise) from that to further the kingdom and build the good.
I would love to see the lines get very blurry between the ’staff’ and everyone else….what if we all did both?
Dan
Dan,
Awesome thoughts. I think blurry lines can be good. sometimes too much clarity inhibits the process.
"In simple business terms: when something is of value the market pays for it. If we could structure churches, businesses, non-profits to think this way we would win twice. First, by contributing our product/service/idea to the world and being rewarded with a living — and second, using the resource ($, networks, influence, expertise) from that to further the kingdom and build the good."
Great thoughts…
I too work a full-time job outside of ministry obligations as a campus pastor. Looking forward to your posts this week.
-tom
Rhett -
I’m good friends with Justin Wise and am a fan of the blog. The church I lead worship for, http://www.tworiversdm.com, requires our two pastors to have jobs outside the church. The reasons:
1. We don’t want our pastors to be out of touch with what’s happening in the real world. This causes them to live vicariously through their members. i.e. “Go evangelize because I don’t know and pre-Christians.
2. We don’t want our pastors to become weird. Why do pastors become so weird when they are just sucked into church world?
Dave,
Great reasons…love it.
Justin –
wow – what a difference a perspective makes – more accurately what a gender makes… as a woman, i know full well that my only way “in” to ministry is bi-vocational – very few evangelical congregations would ever consider hiring/calling a woman pastor… so bi-vocational for me is not a way “out” its a way “in”…
somehow, i don’t think this is how Jesus intended it to be.
sara
Sara,
Sad, but true. I wish more evangelical congregations would hire women. You are very right..
Rhett, I am a bi-vocational church planting pastor and find that this role is received quite differently than when I started this journey 4 years ago. I think the difficult economic environment has caused people to look at being bi-vocational out of necessity, which has changed their theology. Four years ago when people heard I felt called to plant a church and be bi-vocational I didn’t get a lot of respect and even my faith was criticized at times. Today, now that we have actually started gathering, I see people seeking more information and advice on how to be bi-vocational. It’s been an interesting and dramatic shift in the way people think about ministry.
I’m looking forward to your thoughts and insight on this in your upcoming posts
Dave,
Always appreciate your thoughts…you bring a lot of wisdom to the table. Thanks for sharing.
Dave, Great post, but your graphic is totally wrong.
The two arrows should point UP together!
true…
I have been bi-vocational since planting crosspoint in fall 2002. I work full time in the IT industry and do not draw a salary from my church. When we hit 120 people I went full time thinking I could grow the ministry. I managed to surge it to 170 and it quickly grew to 98 a few months later.
Concluding that being full time wasnt the key I went back to work full time and gave my church salary. Since then our church has grown to over 300 average and we had 540 on Easter. I am KILLING myself trying to manage it and im looking to baby step my way back to part time in the church, part time in the work world. I draw a token payment from the church now. My challenge is to keep us financially healthy as a family – and as a church.
One day when I fully understand this I will write a book. In the mean time if you attend the sticks conference (http://www.thesticks.tv) I will tell you in my breakout everything NOT to do.
Dave,
Looking forward to that book, since I can't be at that conference. Looks like you are doing some great things and learning along the way.
So I promise I’m not just pushing my blog, but I’m really passionate about this topic. Recently did about six posts on this so I’m not going to post them here, but it all starts at this link.
Even though it’s not for everyone – and I don’t think God calls everyone to it – it’s the future of a lot of Christian work, especially church planting. And honestly, I believe it’s healthier for both the church and the pastor.
i think that the whole trend of bivocational pastorship and movement of the church is towards group leadership. i say this in respect to the growing number of lay leaders i know who are taking on the responsibilities that they once would only relegate to the “head pastor.”
this is actually a beautiful thing i think…
to go along with that, in my mind, ive always thought, you know what, what i am as a pastor is a paradox. when the curtain was torn in two, i was no longer needed. but somehow our culture seems to keep me around. did we as the church drop the ball somewhere with this new found freedom? whatever it is, i know that at the heart of why i am a pastor lies this paradox of me knowing that im not needed but somehow God still wants to use me this way.
-db
group leadership, collaboration…I agree. and I think it's a beautiful thing too.
Rhett, great post. I am looking forward to your thoughts in the future. I think most I would have to add has already been stated. Both churches I have worked at I have done so bi-vocationally with a job at Starbucks and now a job at a skate shop. What I love about this is the connection with the community. It easily gives me an “in” with people who don’t know Jesus and allows me to serve my community in a way they can understand and relate to. What I think has happened in the tragic mega-Church environment is the lack of connection the church has within a community. What happens too often is the making of an entirely different community and world within the church where people drive 45 minutes to an hour to attend a service. It infiltrates the already existent community with people who don’t care about it as much as they care for the society within the church. Perhaps if the leaders of churches had better relationships within the community, which could be built by an extra working relationship, the community might not feel so disenfranchised by the church. I don’t think that a second job is the only way this is possible. My dad is a full time pastor in chicago but also serves as the chaplain of his communities fire department so that he can build relationships and impact his community with the ethics of Christ. Does that make sense?
Jon,
I love how you do ministry at HPPC. I think you strike an awesome balance. It's a pleasure working with you.
We planted our church 4 years ago with 13 people and 3 “staff”. In the beginning, we didn’t take a salary because all of us worked full-time somewhere else. I’m a morning show co-host at a Central California radio station, our outreach pastor was a personal trainer, and our worship pastor was a music teacher. As we grew and added more staff, everyone maintained an outside job. It became part of our DNA. We now have 11 staff including a middle school vice-principal, a rancher, a retail clerk, a therapist, and the list goes on. Our church now meets in a convention center and our average attendance is 1,200.
Our current struggle is finding a way to run such a large church while all of us maintain outside employment. So far, we’ve been able to rely on Blackberrys and a 2-hour meeting every week. We don’t have mid-week programming or any other bells and whistles that other churches do so well (Mops, Awana, youth church/bands, Wednesday night Bible study, etc.). Instead, we have chosen to focus on the things we do well: the Sunday morning services, outreach to the homeless and hungry population, and a wide assortment of non-structured life/home groups throughout the week (I have no idea how many there are and we don’t really keep tabs on how people are engaging in relationships. We just encourage people to find ways to have community).
It’s been a fun (but challenging) ride. None of us had any experience in church operations/management so we are just learning on the fly and trying to keep it simple.
Daniel,
Wow! Sounds crazy busy, fun, etc. I respect your integrity in this process. Keep me updated as things come along.
Rhett,
Great post. That funnel is a great visual. We had a presentation for our coaches a few weeks ago and we talked about a sifter, a filter of sorts that helps to guide life. That’s exactly what you are talking about. I’ve been talking with a lot of people lately about the fact that we have a strategy for everything – but our own life. You’re developing a strategy for life and I think it’s awesome. Keep it up.
Why can’t I vote? I just see the results of a mere 17 voters.
I am bivocational, but really do want to have the time to prepare better sermons, disciple small group leaders, and read and write. I could care less about my workaday job, and wish I could attend seminary, and build the church into a healthy, inviting, ‘missional’ place.
Currently, I work full time in IT, and preach once a month (sometimes more), sharing Sunday preaching duties with two other Asst. Pastors and the Sr. Pastor, who is only here once per month (long story). Our church is about 100 people in a rural community, and can’t afford to pay a full time salary yet (unless we grow).
NOT working full time in the ministry is frustrating to me. I also, however, have three children ages 5, 3, and 1, so I’m very busy there too. But I have already outlined 6 books I would like to write, I have written over 1000 essays on my blog (twoorthree.net), and am hoping to publish.
I have also endeavored to create seven alternate streams of income for myself this year – don’t know if all or any will work, and I am a little limited because I don’t want to spend all of my time trying to make money, or with products and services that I don’t care about. And most of them are web-oriented, because that has low startup costs.
My seven streams include:
1. Creating ‘value’ sites like http://www.bestbookschristiannonfiction.info, which could generate income if people click on the google ad or buy the books via amazon.
2. Creating a T-shirt site (still in the works, but will be at burningowl.com
3. Compiling my sermon series into audio, ebook, and booklet form for sale on my still to be completed ministry site wholereason.com.
4. Submitting articles to various Christian magazines, which will garner me a little income, but may also push people to my WholeReason, where people might purchase stuff
5. Submitting query letters for my nascent books
6. Eliminating my debts – a penny saved is a penny earned!
7. Getting paid a little by my church! We’ll see about that. Right now, they pay me in experience!
are any of you considering turnkey solutions? Doing stuff like Amway, Pampered Chef, Party Lite?
Daniel,
Wow, 7 streams. Thanks for sharing. Seems like you have thought through this a lot and are doing well.
Not sure what happened to the polls.
It seems that most bivocational pastors start as pastors and then acquire an additional career.
Are there many who start in another career and then become pastors as well?
Do you know of any conservative seminaries that provide an abbreviated training program for the latter?
I am a church planter and in bivocational ministry for 6 years. although it helped us financially ‘thats the church’, it just becomes to hard to do it, especially if you work on a 9-5 job. I firmly believe that the growth of the ministry is connected to the commitment we as pastor make.
Been doing ministry nearly 20 years as a bi vocational social worker and minister. We have two small but stable churches we have planted and a couple we a ramping up with in the Providence, RI area,
bivocationalpastoradventures.blogspot.com and our web site will give you a sense of our experience if you are interested.
God has blessed us with a rich and rewarding life, but it is not typical.
awesome posts…. not an easy life but rewarding. It can be easier though. Check out my blog for my story. http://bivocationalpastors.wordpress.com/
Dave Ingland: I agree with you as you said…”Four years ago when people heard I felt called to plant a church and be bi-vocational I didn’t get a lot of respect and even my faith was criticized at times.”
Before our deaf church had hearing full time pastor, he moved to Chicago from BC, Canada, then I became interim pastor…took an year, not find any full time so I became former deaf bi-vocational baptist pastor….2 deaf leaders criticized my work, even I never gone to Bible College. It was hard on me that I had to manage my time for home and church. Result was division and also I was divorced. My exwife and I had bad experinced from that like church abuse. I know it was hard because not many have deaf churches and not many to keep fellowship with deaf/hearing pastors who work for deaf ministries….I know I had been alone. I understand that there are many hearing churches that can keep contacts. Pray that deaf christians will understand the different from full time pastors and bi vocational pastors.
Great Topic. The fact is that 75% of pastors in America are bivocational, most not by choice but because most churches cannot afford to pay them. I am a pastor at saddleback church in California. They could afford it but I still pay my own salary. I have been a bivocational pastor for 36 years by choice. It has not always been easy but always rewarding. Someone mentioned in an earlier reply how it keeps us in the “real or normal” world. It is also powerful for displaying integrity. No one can accuse you of being after their money. It also gives freedom in teaching because you are living in the same life that the listeners are. I tell my people, ” I go to work at 6 am every morning just like you, If I can find time to do this so can you.” Make no mistake, the bible says clearly that those preaching and teaching from the word have a right to expect financial compensation. There are many reason benefits for that and many difficulties and reason not to be bivocational. I just want to encourage my fellow pastors who may not have a choice that it can be a very fulfilling and rewarding way to go. Don’t lose heart.
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