Comments on: Tired of the First Question from People, Pastors and Leaders Being “How Many People Were There?” http://rhettsmith.com/2008/07/tired-of-the-first-question-from-people-pastors-and-leaders-being-how-many-people-were-there/ Thu, 10 May 2012 14:59:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Tyler http://rhettsmith.com/2008/07/tired-of-the-first-question-from-people-pastors-and-leaders-being-how-many-people-were-there/comment-page-1/#comment-2597 Tyler Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:29:50 +0000 http://www.rhettsmith.com/?p=967#comment-2597 Next time I'll wait longer to comment :) Next time I’ll wait longer to comment :)

]]> By: Rhett Smith http://rhettsmith.com/2008/07/tired-of-the-first-question-from-people-pastors-and-leaders-being-how-many-people-were-there/comment-page-1/#comment-2601 Rhett Smith Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:25:29 +0000 http://www.rhettsmith.com/?p=967#comment-2601 Kyle: Thanks for posting. I agree that churches sometimes are very insulated, and never seek to evangelize and grow their Church to fulfill the great commission. But I think there are many churches that will never grow too much that you will find in certain communities....and we can't look at them as not being successful...whatever that word means. I have been frustrated with some churches in the PCUSA that I do know who have been losing scores and scores of people....and they feel like they are the only ones following God...but when you look at what they are doing, it's pretty disappointing. I've always been impressed with the stories I have read about and heard about Eugene Peterson. He pastored his church for over 30 years....I think it was about 300. Never got huge, etc. And he had many opportunities to leave, but was committed to that community. There is a story about him being asked to come speak and the speaker said there would only be like a 1,000 people there...as if almost to apologize. Peterson said he couldn't do it...and the guy was like...oh, sorry, do you want more people there. And Peterson said no...I want less. If there is like 40 or less I will do it. I appreciate people whose egos don't require them to only speak in large crowds, and who don't care what size the audience is. So I think we all agree...that numbers is a certain measure if we are doings something right. But I'm just saying...this should not be the first question, or the only one we care about. rhett Kyle:

Thanks for posting. I agree that churches sometimes are very insulated, and never seek to evangelize and grow their Church to fulfill the great commission.

But I think there are many churches that will never grow too much that you will find in certain communities….and we can’t look at them as not being successful…whatever that word means.

I have been frustrated with some churches in the PCUSA that I do know who have been losing scores and scores of people….and they feel like they are the only ones following God…but when you look at what they are doing, it’s pretty disappointing.

I’ve always been impressed with the stories I have read about and heard about Eugene Peterson. He pastored his church for over 30 years….I think it was about 300. Never got huge, etc. And he had many opportunities to leave, but was committed to that community.

There is a story about him being asked to come speak and the speaker said there would only be like a 1,000 people there…as if almost to apologize. Peterson said he couldn’t do it…and the guy was like…oh, sorry, do you want more people there. And Peterson said no…I want less. If there is like 40 or less I will do it.

I appreciate people whose egos don’t require them to only speak in large crowds, and who don’t care what size the audience is.

So I think we all agree…that numbers is a certain measure if we are doings something right. But I’m just saying…this should not be the first question, or the only one we care about.

rhett

]]> By: kyle. http://rhettsmith.com/2008/07/tired-of-the-first-question-from-people-pastors-and-leaders-being-how-many-people-were-there/comment-page-1/#comment-2595 kyle. Tue, 08 Jul 2008 06:50:57 +0000 http://www.rhettsmith.com/?p=967#comment-2595 i have attended an extremely large church my entire life and have seen the ills of measuring success solely on numbers. it can be disheartening to hear people, especially staff, discount the effectiveness of an event just because it didn't meet their desired attendance level. at the same time, however, a church that is not seeking to grow is not fulfilling the great commission. i've certainly heard enough people from small churches who were far too content with the comfort of smallness at the cost of reaching others. i guess i wrote all of that to say that i don't think there can be a universal measurement of success; as long as the goal is Christ things will work out alright. i have attended an extremely large church my entire life and have seen the ills of measuring success solely on numbers. it can be disheartening to hear people, especially staff, discount the effectiveness of an event just because it didn’t meet their desired attendance level. at the same time, however, a church that is not seeking to grow is not fulfilling the great commission. i’ve certainly heard enough people from small churches who were far too content with the comfort of smallness at the cost of reaching others. i guess i wrote all of that to say that i don’t think there can be a universal measurement of success; as long as the goal is Christ things will work out alright.

]]> By: Rhett http://rhettsmith.com/2008/07/tired-of-the-first-question-from-people-pastors-and-leaders-being-how-many-people-were-there/comment-page-1/#comment-2599 Rhett Tue, 08 Jul 2008 05:36:35 +0000 http://www.rhettsmith.com/?p=967#comment-2599 Tyler: Man, you respond fast to my posts :-) I hear what you are saying and I agree about an easy way to gage success. The problem as you would agree is that numbers are also not indicative of success always, or of what goes on. For example: Some of our best college worship nights was when they were small...sometimes the size of a small group...but from the outside, that is often gauged as failure in contrast to a night with more people. We all buy into it....and I see why. But I think we have to learn to not be dependent upon it and use that to determine our success in things. Number s can be indicative of success in many ways...but that's just not always good... Know what I'm saying? rhett Tyler:

Man, you respond fast to my posts :-)

I hear what you are saying and I agree about an easy way to gage success.

The problem as you would agree is that numbers are also not indicative of success always, or of what goes on.

For example: Some of our best college worship nights was when they were small…sometimes the size of a small group…but from the outside, that is often gauged as failure in contrast to a night with more people.

We all buy into it….and I see why. But I think we have to learn to not be dependent upon it and use that to determine our success in things. Number s can be indicative of success in many ways…but that’s just not always good…

Know what I’m saying?

rhett

]]> By: Tyler http://rhettsmith.com/2008/07/tired-of-the-first-question-from-people-pastors-and-leaders-being-how-many-people-were-there/comment-page-1/#comment-2593 Tyler Tue, 08 Jul 2008 05:33:08 +0000 http://www.rhettsmith.com/?p=967#comment-2593 numbers is an easy way to gage success. it is same way in blogging. im not condoning it, but I find it hard to find some other way to gage success easily. numbers is an easy way to gage success. it is same way in blogging. im not condoning it, but I find it hard to find some other way to gage success easily.

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