This last week I have been video streaming, reading blogs and following Twitters about the PC(USA)-218th General Assembly in San Jose, CA. If you are involved with the denomination then it can be somewhat interesting…at times. Otherwise, it can be quite tedious.
It’s interesting to watch them discuss at great detail issues that I thought had been decided 2-3 years ago…and they have been by many other denominations, churches, and culture itself. So from that viewpoint the whole process seems “for show” at times.
That had me thinking about one issue in particular…
Women in ministry.
Now, this blog isn’t to debate whether women should be in ministry or not, because many of us have differing opinions. But because I believe they should be in ministry at all levels, I want to hear from mainly those who also hold the same view.
What concerns me is when we say we are for women in ministry, or our church and denomination claim women have a role at all levels of ministry, yet you look around and wonder if that is true or not.
I have talked to more women recently who have become disillusioned, or frustrated when the believe they are serving in a church or denomination that stands behind women in ministry, yet behind the scenes they realize they are actually quite limited, finding their hands tied at all levels.
So my question: Do you, your church, or denomination really believe in women in ministry or is it just lip service?
It’s a question of praxis. Do you put your beliefs and theories into practice in this regard, or would one look around your church and realize that it’s just a good idea and theory, but not good in reality.
At least those who don’t believe women should be in ministry are quite up front about it (i.e. the men at Together for the Gospel. They don’t communicate one thing, but do something different behind the scenes.
So as you look at your church, and if it’s a church that advocates women in ministry, I’m wondering a few things:
- Do women have equal say as the men in decision making?
- Are women afforded the same opportunity to preach as the men, or are they placed up there a couple of times a year as almost a token?
- Are the male staff members really advocates of women in ministry, or do they quietly believe that a woman’s place is in the home?
- Are the women staff members equally respected as their male counterparts?
If we really believe that women should be in ministry, then shouldn’t we be living that out in our decision making?
And, if we are part of the PC(USA) of which I am, then shouldn’t our churches reflect our position of women in ministry more thoroughly?
Hey Rhett-
Tough subject. While I do not necessarily fully support the position of my presbyterian church, I think they do a great job of supporting women at all levels outside of the senior pastor position. While that might be exactly where you are frustrated, I do think they empower women to fulfill their roles completely.
Hey Rhett-
Tough subject. While I do not necessarily fully support the position of my presbyterian church, I think they do a great job of supporting women at all levels outside of the senior pastor position. While that might be exactly where you are frustrated, I do think they empower women to fulfill their roles completely.
I’ve came up in a conservative United Pres. Church that had women elders and deacons when it wasn’t fashionable. I’ve seen and heard great and not so great preachers of both genders. Two great examples in our Presbytery were Heidi Husted who served Columbia Pres. in Vancouver for 10 years and the current pastor, Cynthia O’Brien at Smith Memorial church in Fairview [Portland but don't tell her].
With a change to the EPC a concern of mine has been an ongoing commitment to the same sort of leadership. I was heartened when hearing about the most recent New Wineskins Presbytery meeting at which one of the two pastors examined to receive a call was a woman.
On our session and deacon’s it has been much easier to find women to serve than men. Are there differences “heck yeah”. Can it be frustrating “no answer”. What I do know is that if a woman has the spiritual gifts, a validated sense of call there’s no reason to NOT let her have the lead.
Alan
I’ve came up in a conservative United Pres. Church that had women elders and deacons when it wasn’t fashionable. I’ve seen and heard great and not so great preachers of both genders. Two great examples in our Presbytery were Heidi Husted who served Columbia Pres. in Vancouver for 10 years and the current pastor, Cynthia O’Brien at Smith Memorial church in Fairview [Portland but don't tell her].
With a change to the EPC a concern of mine has been an ongoing commitment to the same sort of leadership. I was heartened when hearing about the most recent New Wineskins Presbytery meeting at which one of the two pastors examined to receive a call was a woman.
On our session and deacon’s it has been much easier to find women to serve than men. Are there differences “heck yeah”. Can it be frustrating “no answer”. What I do know is that if a woman has the spiritual gifts, a validated sense of call there’s no reason to NOT let her have the lead.
Alan
Tyler:
Even though I have certain thoughts on women in ministry, etc., I know others differ in them. What I get frustrated by is if we say we affirm them in ministry, but then behind the scenes we really don’t encourage it. Or if we put a woman next to a man, often a man is chosen, even if he is less qualified.
Alan:
Good thoughts. Thanks for sharing. I remember one pastor talking about how in their church all the people (elders, deacons, leaders, etc.) would always ask this one woman for advice. But since she was a woman she couldn’t serve as an elder or deacon in this church. Crazy.
My favorite is when we send women over to foreign countries as missionaries. They do amazing work, plant a church….but when they come home they can’t serve in their own church in certain positions.
Thanks for your thoughts.
rhett
The one thing that lacks in these topical blogs is, “what does the Bible say about this.” Clearly Paul never gives credence to women elders but does make openings for other areas. An exegetical look at this would be helpful also.
Ben,
I intentionally didn’t get into anything exegetical here.
1) I have blogged about this issue exegetically already lots of times.
2) I wrote the post for those who basically already agree with women being in ministry from a theological/biblical stance. So I did’n't post it to argue that point.
Rather, my point is that if people do believe women should be in ministry….then do they practice that belief? If not, why?
I do know we could argue what levels of ministry women should be involved in. I think all levels personally…but I know that not everyone holds that opinion.
rhett
Ben,
I intentionally didn’t get into anything exegetical here.
1) I have blogged about this issue exegetically already lots of times.
2) I wrote the post for those who basically already agree with women being in ministry from a theological/biblical stance. So I did’n't post it to argue that point.
Rather, my point is that if people do believe women should be in ministry….then do they practice that belief? If not, why?
I do know we could argue what levels of ministry women should be involved in. I think all levels personally…but I know that not everyone holds that opinion.
rhett